Podcast

Transcript

Joshua Miller  0:14  

All right everyone. Welcome back to another episode. I'm your host, Joshua Miller and today we have corporate Executive Chef David Binkle from the award winning pizza oven company, Marra Forni, which are built and based, believe it or not, in Beltsville, Maryland, Chef David amongst a handful of certifications is also a Certified Executive Pastry Chef, so you can say he knows a thing or two about what it takes to make a great pizza. Chef David, welcome. Thank you for joining us. And to kick things off. Tell us what is your go to comfort food or guilty pleasure snack?

Chef David Binkle  0:52  

Well, first off, Chef, thank you so much for allowing me and Marra Forni to be part of this podcast. We appreciate it so much spreading the word and the gospel about our company. My guilty pleasure is the guilty pleasure of everybody. And that is Krispy Kreme Doughnuts. Uh, when when you see that sign, and you've, you're driving by a lot of people make a right turn and head straight into get one that's fresh and hot. They just have a terrific marketing plan, and also a terrific product. And you know, it is a guilty pleasure for most people and one for me as well. 

Joshua Miller  1:33  

I couldn't agree more. I'm guilty of it. Whenever I pass through Pennsylvania, I always try to hit that last exit to get some Krispy Kreme and bring them home, they freeze well, for anyone that doesn't know that. All right, so just to kick things off our first question here. Let's ask. And if you can answer for our audience here. What are the top one or two mistakes that you see a lot of cooks and chefs making with their pizzas? In terms of when you walk into a program, you might have pet peeves. Like I wish people would stop doing this or start doing this? What are those top one or two items?

Chef David Binkle  2:07  

Well, in terms of college and university, and all the various different segments, you know, on the institutional side of food service, it is a real challenge. Because it's such a variety of different types of programs that people have, whether it's an all you can eat program, whether it's an ala carte program, then you have different day parts from breakfast, to lunch, to snack to evening meal to late night snack, then you have all the various different things that you throw into it, like exam week, and all those things, you know, so the challenges are different at different places. And I would say probably the biggest challenges that that we see out there is not only making pizza, but also having the pizza be the correct temperature, the dough temperature in terms of having the specific dough temperature that you want it to be around 69-70 degrees when it goes into the oven. So I see a lot of pizza that either is over approved or it hasn't been properly tempt and tempered. 

So that's one of the challenges that we see out there in the industry across this country as well as into other countries that we do in the college and university segment is is actually the dough temperature. The other challenge that we see is really the throughput of getting pizza to the customer in a way that really the students or the faculty administration, the customer, the guests don't either have to wait for pizza to be made, or they don't want to have pizza that's been sitting, you know, on a table for 10, 20, 30 minutes. And so getting the throughput right. Whether that program, you know is a slice program or whether it is a smaller personal size pizza. Those are the biggest challenges, you know, that I see in all the ingredients right? To get all of the dough temperature, right? Whether they're purchasing a product, you know, as a frozen par-baked product or they're purchasing something that is a raw product. Some products have to be cooked and baked directly from the freezer. Some have to be slacked and tempered overnight, and some places that are making their own dough. 

So the types of ingredients that go into it is really a challenge. So when people think pizza, they think it's very very simple and very easy to do, because everybody loves it. And you know, worldwide roughly 10% of menus worldwide, in all segments have some sort of pizza on the menu. Because it is such a high profitable item in college and universities. It really is one of those things that when you take flour and water and a little bit of salt, mix a little bit of yeast, you have a highly profitable item. So the more pizza you can feed to the students, the better it actually is.

Joshua Miller 2  5:33  

Yeah, you're absolutely right about that. And, and if you paid attention on his he's giving tips of not things where you need to go out and purchase some big piece of equipment and you know, go out and get, you know, five more bodies on your pizza station, he just gave you tips that you can implement starting like today, starting tomorrow, quick and easy things that you can start out with, slowly take those steps to make improvements. So moving on to our next question here. Does woodfired pizza make any impact versus non woodfired? Pizza? I'm seeing woodfired everything everywhere. So I have to ask that.

Chef David Binkle  6:11  

Sure and woodfired, you know, is the same, you know, really going down the same path as coal fire, we have a number of coal fire customers as well, that use a variety of different types of pressed beech wood, or they use a variety of different types of charcoal, anthracite coal for an example. So the challenge with college and university, whether it's wood fired, or whether it's coal fire, or any type of you know, fuel source like that, it really becomes a challenge because most of the college and university segments, they don't allow live fire in a lot of facilities, right? So, you know, when you start talking about the differences of what wood fire does to a pizza, what coal fire does to a pizza, you really have to kind of look back at those in this country. And I'll just use this country. You know, as the example. When you're talking New Haven with places like Frank Pepe's, you know, these these ovens, little Rendezvous for an example, those those New Haven style pizzerias, you know, those ovens, some of them are 100 plus years old, right? And they're burning anthracite coal in there, and the fire continues to burn. And so does it make a difference in something like that? Absolutely, it does. 

But it also goes to the formula of what's in the dough, how they're preparing that product with the live fire that they have. I will say this, that if you're talking about something, you know, like a wood fired oven, and trying to make a Neapolitan type of pizza, which typically is, you know, very high heat 800 plus degrees, you're baking it in such a quick timeline of, you know, 60 to 90 seconds type of thing, maybe 100 seconds, that it doesn't really impart the flavor that you think it would such as if you're making something similar to a New York style or, or pizza Classica or something like that, that has olive oil in it, that's a longer bake time at a lower temperature. The challenge that we see with woodfire is having the ability for woodfire to be able to be a consistent deck temperature to make consistent pizza or other baked products from opening to closing. 

And so there's a lot of woodfired pizzeria companies a lot of woodfired pizza shops that are actually changing to a gas assist. And wood fire for specifically the ambiance. Because one thing we all love is to see live flame whether it's grilling or whether it's smoking whatever it might be. Yeah, we need to see that flame and flame sells it sells your product. So having something that gives you that appearance such as a brick oven with a gas assist in a college and university where you can see a flame that you may not be able to put wood in there you may not be able to put you know a charcoal log in there. But you can definitely get flame and you can get definitely get that ambiance so it depends on the style to answer your question really depends on the style and how long of time that that product is in the oven baking to get the color that you're looking for. 

Because it can impart flavor, if it's in for a while, but what it does do, and we hear this and see this all the time with customers that are woodfired, you know, specific pizzerias or restaurants, we hear and see this all the time, it makes a difference to your senses when you walk in, and you smell the wood. And it makes a difference in terms of the senses of what type of wood it is, if it's a barbecue shop that's doing mesquite wood, or if it's, you know, a cherry wood that may be here in Maryland, as gives you different senses.

Joshua Miller 10:40  

Perfect. Yeah, I have to ask that because I'm seeing all these wood fired appliances for home. And you know, there's even wood fire chain restaurants out there popping up. And, you know, I've always questioned it am I getting as much flavor as I feel like I should be because of, you know, again, that it's almost like a key word there. woodfired. And yes, it does absolutely agree that I'll be able to definitely contribute to, but definitely good to hear that, especially if you're going for that neapolitan style, may not be worth it as much as we may think it is so great to hear that. So in terms of anyone that might be in the market of either purchasing a pizza oven or thinking about it, when would you recommend a deck oven over a deck oven and or vice versa?

Chef David Binkle  11:25  

Yeah, you know, the we get a lot of those types of questions is what do you think is right for me? In fact, I was just talking to a company yesterday that took over a restaurant in Denver, Colorado, and he was asking the same question, is this the right piece of equipment, I bought this restaurant and it's got this brick oven in it. But I don't know if it's the right capability. So the bottom line comes down to the menu, right? What is it that you're actually wanting to prepare? And then what's the versatility of that menu, because we do see a lot and it's happening a lot with a lot of brewery chains right now. In fact, I have a brewery coming tomorrow from Ohio. And part of it is they all they want is one or two or three things to add to a menu. So they don't have to keep bringing a food truck in and paying out part of their their revenue profits or, or having to pay or give part of that, that, you know, check average away. 

So it comes down to how big is the menu? What is it that you're actually preparing on the menu. If you're, if you're preparing or having to prepare multiple items on the menu, then you really want to look to a deck oven, because of the versatility of being able to have independent cavities, right, you can get a stackable series of and 1, 2, 3, 4 decks high by you know, 2, 3, 4 pan wide right, so you can put a lot of versatility in there. Yeah, when you're looking at a brick oven, and typically a dome style brick oven, you know, back to, you know, 2000 year old history of Mount Vesuvius and, and Pompeii and, and you know Naples and all those types of things in terms of history. You know, it depends on what, what you have.

 So for example, if you're if you're wanting to make you know, Roman or you wanted to make Sicilian you wanted to make Grandma you wanting to make a tavern style or you wanting to make you know, Detroit or something like that with all these different pans, then it becomes how do I put all these pans, you know, configuration into the dome to make it work. Does it work? Yes, it absolutely works. But it requires a different thought process in terms of prep, and you know, advanced planning of par-baking, and we see that a lot with a lot of different pizzerias that have dome ovens. So, I would say from a college and university standpoint, if the oven is accessible and visible to the students, then you want a neapolitan style oven. 

Even if you're just finishing product in there that have been Suvi or or that you know, you're preparing something that is finishing a Detroit pan pizza or whatever. That's a huge impact. I think that most colleges and universities have missed the mark in terms of how they can make a lot more pizza product in a deck oven, if you will, whether it's a baker's pride or whether it's a pizza master or whether it's a Marra Forni they're missing the boat on Pan pizzas, because it's such an easy thing to prepare in advance. And it's such a high profitable item that they could take all of the, you know, products that they've got leftover vegetables, meats, things, and they could prepare those into pan pizzas. 

And they would save so much money to cut down on the waste, sustainability would be there, the pan pizzas in the college and university segment in the K 12 segment is the biggest opportunity there is. And I will say most 95 to 98% of colleges don't realize that that's their sweet spot, not making round pizzas, by the slice. It really is pan pizzas are the thing that will give them the most accessibility of having, especially with labor saving needs right now because of labor issues, is something that you can prepare and, and you can proof the dough, you know, all day long and bake it and have it ready for the next day that all you do is just in the oven and cut it and put it out and you don't need any staff, we're seeing a lot of that in the bar business right now. We're seeing a lot of bartenders that have become pizza makers. Because you know, at 11 o'clock at night, it's an easy sell. But you know, there's not a cook there, there's not a pizza maker there. Or if they are they're cleaning the kitchen. And so it's something that's very simple to do fire off a pan pie that you can have the bartender just take it one, one minute, bring it out, and you've got, you've got a sale there of 10 to $20. And you got three or four customers. And you know, pretty soon you got a $100 hour going and you haven't done anything to junk, but just heat up pizza. And so it's you know, it's like a lot of things, you know, people like pizza, better the next day, right? Yeah. So I think you know, from that when it goes back to your question about the stackable or the electric or a gas or deck oven versus brick oven, it's like anything comes down to the menu. Right? Versatility of that menu.

Joshua Miller  17:30  

Yeah. And I was going to ask the question, but I think you already answered it with that, which is how can a college maximize the operation of their their pizza and their pizza station? And it goes back to that versatility, right? Where you can put in a deck oven and especially different products, different temperatures, and now all of a sudden that pizza station is pumping out a whole new menu for the late night? Possibly, right?

Chef David Binkle  17:57  

Well, yes. And the thing that, in addition to that, from the versatility standpoint, is you got to look for things that are fast, easy and cheap, right? That don't cost a lot of money to make. And the fastest, easiest way is to go back to the history of pizza or the history of beads. And to breads, right and to look at, you know, different origins of bread. So the easiest, fastest thing to make in terms of the versatility are things like naan bread, euros, tacos, you know, all those types of things, breadsticks that that are so easy, perfect.

Joshua Miller 18:42  

And so in terms of if people still have questions, or they they wish that they had more resources available to them to help improve their pizza making process or the pizza program, what what resources are available for them?

Chef David Binkle 18:56  

Well there's all kinds of resources out there and obviously the one that people go to as YouTube right. And, you know, we have a pizza school here as part of Marra Forni called Pizza University, which, you know, there is a fee to it. But in terms of free resources, many of those master pizzaiolos that teach here in Beltsville, you know, they also are on YouTube, and are giving all kinds of instructional and demonstrations. We just had the last three days. Leo's pissouri here from Chicago master pizzaiolo. And, you know, world renowned pizzaiolo AVPN, certified pizzaiolo. And the thing about it is with Leo's Ziri you can catch him and ask Chef Leo and and, he'll respond to you. So if you have a specific question certainly could reach Shout out to us at morraforni.com. But, you know, the places that I would go to are directly to the YouTube channel to look for those resources, there's plenty of master pizzaiolos showing you how to, you know, slap pizza, they're showing you how to make pizza, they're showing you how to formulate pizza, they're showing you all kinds of things that don't cost a lot of money. 

The difference is, you know, in terms of the resources that locations have currently, the types of ovens that that they have, most places, the ovens don't get hot enough. So even if you're trying to use a combi oven, or you're trying to use a convection oven, which, you know, preschools in K 12, the convection oven is the worst thing that you could possibly make any kind of hearts bread with pizza or anything, putting it on a sheet pan, and they, they know the difference between good product and bad products. And so if you can make pizza, right in schools, you know, and we do have a lot of K 12 customers we have a lot of customers with with brick ovens in the dining room, because they realize that that competition, you know, is is fierce out there. For for the students and it doesn't matter if it's, you know, a free or reduced program or whether it's a paid program, you know, pizza is an important part of feeding the kids and the school, you know, when the teachers you know, want to reward the kids oftentimes it well looks like we're gonna have a pizza party, you know, and then they'll bring in, you know, a pizza from, from fast food pizza, right. And, you know, instead of buying it from the school, because they just don't think it's a good enough pizza. 

And so, you know, the resources are out there. Another quick resource is Modernist Cuisine, Modernist Pizza, they have a number of podcast, history of pizza. And they have a terrific series called Modernist Pizza 1500 page, three volume binder that is available, you know,on all of your, your book purchases like Amazon, but Modernist Pizza Podcast is a terrific one to hear the group out of San Francisco that talks about pizza and, and the history and origin of all the various different styles and, a lot of guests that come on the show. So those are some resources that are free that are out there. And then obviously, we have a number of different types of programs here, whether they're professional, or you know that they're their personal programs. You know, we do recreational classes here we have birthday parties with team building events. We do pizza wars here, so lots of different things at pizzauniversity.org.

Joshua Miller 23:11  

Love it. And so speaking of which, can you just share how can people connect with you get to learn more about Marra Forni offers? What's the best way to connect?

Chef David Binkle  23:23  

Yeah, so the best way to connect is just go to our website, we have two different websites. One is www.marraforni.com and the other is ww.pizzauniversity.org.

Joshua Miller  23:38  

Perfect, awesome. Well, thank you again for coming on and sharing some great information. Hopefully the audience is going to take away some great tips and check into some of those resources that are available to them. And I have to say if you didn't get any value out of this that you must have the best pizza. We want to come check it out. Yeah, come in. Let us come and check it out. And other than that, everyone thank you for tuning in for another episode. You are all RAF ambassadors. Thank you, welcome again. If you are part of the remarkable academic food landscape, no matter what your role is, you are an ambassador and thank you and till next time. This is your host Joshua Miller and our guests, Chef David signing off.